Late Night Cocoa (004) : Whats in Leopard For Developers with Scott Stevenson

In this episode Scotty & Scott Stevenson of Cocoa Dev Central discuss some of the things coming in Leopard for Developers, including Objective-C 2.0, Language Bridges, The WOW Factor , Core Animation, XCode 3.0, Interface Builder, and loads of other things.



Guest Link
Cocoa Dev Central
Cocoa Blogs


No love for Perl?

I'm entirely with you with regards to more choices being a good thing. That's precisely why I wrote CamelBones, the Cocoa/Perl bridge. The CamelBones site at SourceForge ( has had a quote from Devo's "Freedom of Choice" for close to five years now.

I've been lobbying since Jaguar was in beta to have CamelBones included with the base install, with no luck. I rebuilt the build system (it used to use GNUStep make files, even on Mac OS X). I made it possible to embed the framework, dodging libperl's binary compatibility problems, so that users could have a simple drag-n-drop install on any reasonably current Mac OS X version. I've added features to CamelBones whose sole purpose is compatibility with Apple's own Objective-C/Perl bridge module.

I didn't need to do these things, but Apple's own engineers hinted to me that doing so, making it easier to integrate it into Apple's build system, easier for users to install apps and migrate from Apple's bridge, would smooth the process of getting my bridge included. And now they're including PyObjC and RubyCocoa both - but not CamelBones? WTF?

Can anyone tell me why I shouldn't take this as a huge "f*** you" from Apple to the Perl community in general, and to myself in particular? Yeah, I know; this sounds whiny and bitter, and I apologize for that. It's just that I've put a *lot* of effort into my project over the past five years, sometimes even passing up on paying work to do so. It's very frustrating to put all that into something, only to receive an icy cold shoulder time and again.

Perl...Not sexy!

As you probably know... Perl is not one of the technologies that are sexy right now...
As far as I've gathered this is the list (prioritized):
1.) Ruby on Rails
2.) AJAX
3.) Adobe Flash/Flex
4.) Python --- somewhat

The good news? Well - Perl is solid and many people do know it! So maybe you should try and see how many people use your bridge, get them to provide feedback, and take comfort in their hopefully positive views of your work.

Even if this fails - I think it's pretty cool that you know how to do all of this stuff - as I am just getting to grips with Cocoa myself :)

I agree, Rudy is on top of

I agree, Rudy is on top of my list as well.

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Wait a minute - Rudy? Are we talking programming, or politics? :-)


I guess I type faster than I think ;) it was Ruby :)
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Before we get too far off track

Okay, before we get too off track here, I'm not dissing the languages that made the cut. Seriously! Choice is a good thing. I'm not upset that Python or Ruby bridges *did* make the cut, I'm upset that CamelBones *didn't* make it.

Nice work...

Scott (maker of podCast :-) ),

Thanks for creating this podcast... I'm an Aussie living in London and it's great to have the british personality and approachable style of podcasting. It rocks! Blake, you rock too... ofcourse... :-)

Keep it going... It's really appreciated.


Thanks for a great listen about Leopard and the technology and the deveoper tools behind it.
I would very much appreciate a podcast re. Rubycocoa and Rubyosa that will be part of Leopard. It would be great if you could get in touch with Laurent Lanconetti of apple and ask him whether he could talk about scripting languages in Leopard and what can be done with them since he is the guy behind these technologies (well RubyCocoa and RubyOSA).



I wen to two WWDCs already and going to this one as well. I'll be doing podcasts from WWDC on my show and can do a daily update for your show as well. So, if you want my side of the story, let me know...

[email protected]


This is a great episode!
You guys, Steve Scott and Scott Stevenson (which are not the same person ;) ) are fun characters to listen to. This episode has a great atmosphere. Scotty, please, do a sequel!


Great episode, I always love listening to Scott Stevenson talk about Cocoa.

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